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House Judiciary Committee Hearing on Immigration System

Cite as "AILA InfoNet Doc. No. 13020147 (posted Feb. 5, 2013)"

On 02/05/13 at 10:15 Eastern the House Judiciary Committee will hold a hearing on “America’s Immigration System: Opportunities for Legal Immigration and Enforcement of Laws against Illegal Immigration” by direction of the Chair, Rep. Goodlatte (R-VA).

Live Summary of House Hearing

10:33am: Rep. Goodlatte (R-VA) starts the House Hearing: We must be out faithful to our heritage as a nation of immigrants…and a nation of laws. Rep. Goodlatte did not mention border security.

10:40am: Rep. Gutierrez (D-IL) makes a statement: I didn’t come here to undermine anyone’s work, but to work in an collaborative spirit, you Chairman Goodlatte…This issue is important to me…that immigrants that come here to sweat and toil in this country. As Gandhi would have said if he were here today let’s have politics with principals.

10:42am: Rep Gowdy’s (R-SC) opening statement: We understand why people come to this country. America is picked because we embrace freedom and justice, we are a nation of laws and those laws must be enforced. We must reconcile humanity and respect for the rule of law. In 1986 we were told that immigration had been settled once and for all, but 25 years later we are still waiting on border security and employment verification. Many are open to legislative solutions of humanity and grace, but people will be watching to ensure we are serious about enforcing the rule of law.

10:46am: Rep. Lofgren’s (D-CA) opening statement: Welcomes Rep. Goodlatte’s leadership on this issue to ensure that America does not lead a trail of tears to the border. Our immigration system tears families apart, if we want a moral and humane system we have a lot of work to do. Today the country is past the point of debating whether or not we need immigration reform. Conservative leaders have signaled support for CIR including a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. It will take bi-partisanship to solve this problem. We are now removing record numbers of immigrants a year and according to experts net migration from Mexico is zero. Every year we spend more on immigration enforcement than on all other types of federal criminal enforcement combined. We know that we must reform our employment and family visa system. Partial legalization is a dangerous path, we only have to look at France and Germany to see how unwise it is to create a permanent underclass. With the exception of slavery and the Chinese Exclusion Act our laws have never prevented people from becoming citizens. Immigration is a system and needs systematic overhaul, not a piecemeal approach. We need essential workers, but we should not do so at the expense of family based immigration. Family based immigration plays an important role in bolstering our economy—families are more likely to start small business and employ American workers. The founders of Google and Intel came here not based on their skills on employment visas, but through the family immigration system and as refugees.

10:53am: First panel begins

10:55am: Vivek Wadhwa speaks on the importance of skilled immigrants and immigrations to the United States in this new era.

11:05am: Michael Teitelbaum speaks on the Jordan Commission that released reports in 1994, 1995 and 1997.

11:11am: Puneet Arora speaks on the one million highly skilled immigrants living in the United States and waiting in line for a green card.

11:16am: Phoenix Mayor Julian Castro speaks on the realities of governing a city with a high percentage of immigrant Americans.

11:24am: Rep. Goodlatte begins his questions for the panel:
Q: The Jordan commission suggested eliminating the Diversity Visa, could these 800,000 visas have been better utilized for a different category?
Teitelbaum A: Yes.

Q: According to the commission unless there is a compelling national interest to do otherwise immigrants should be based on skills and the nuclear family of those immigrants (spouses and children under 18)–-the reunification of adult children and siblings is not as compelling, isn’t this what people refer to as chain migration?
Teitelbaum A: This is management by backlogs.

Q: Do you think interior enforcement should play a role to discourage future illegal immigration in order to make jobs more difficult to get.
Castro A: Under the administration there has been increased attention on enforcement, the 2007 triggers have been met.

Q: A large percentage of people not unlawfully present in the US overstayed their visas, so there must be other enforcement mechanisms than border security.

Castro A: We can make the system work better for everyone including for employers and at the airports.

Q: Are there options that we consider between the extremes of mass deportation and a pathway to citizenship for those unlawfully present in the US.
Castro A: I don’t see the pathway to citizenship as an extreme option—over time Congress has shown that as the choice. The extreme would be open borders, no one agrees with that.

11:32am: Rep. Conyers begins his questions for the panel:

Q: Can the panel come to an agreement that a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million is essential?
Arora A: We must have a balanced approach in the system including a path.
Wadhwa A: The low hanging fruit is the children who should be given citizenship immediately. We must respect the law maybe we can legalize them so they can pay taxes without giving them citizenship.
Castro A: it would be unprecedented to create a class of folks who would be everything, but citizens. We draw our strength from being citizens, we cannot create second class non-citizens.

Q: Have we reached a state in terms of border security, I get the impression that we’re doing a little better: less people are coming over and we’re spending tons of money. What are the areas we should look at?
Teitelbaum A: I’ve traveled along the border, there is no such thing as the average border situation because there are huge variations. My impression is from the data that the number of attempted crossings has declined and there are more boots on the ground. But, the recession in the United States and rapid economic growth South of the border have also played a part, so we can’t answer the question if increased enforcement is the cause. I think there have been serious efforts on the border, but I don’t think there have been serious efforts on the interior.

11:37am Rep. Smith begins his questions

Q: Immigrants work hard and for the American Dream, and Americans are the most generous country in the world admitting more than 1 million immigrants a year, more than any other country. I think we should admit more immigrants based on their skills, right now we only admit about 6% of immigrants based on their skills and we need to increase that number without jeopardizing current American workers. How do we admit skilled immigrants without hurting American workers?
Wadhwa A: When you bring skilled immigrants in they create jobs. We are in an entrepreneurial economy.
Teitelbaum A: We should not admit large number of temporary workers or you will have an effect on American workers.
Arora A: We’ve restricted the mobility of high skilled immigrants in the American economy so they’re trapped in their jobs and not able to participate in the marker economy.

Q: Do you see any compromise between the current status quo and a path to citizenship for the 11 million or more illegal immigrants in the country today?
Castro A: I see the compromise as an earned path to citizenship because that’s the best option.

Q: Is there any witness today that does not agree that we should have a national mandatory worker verification system?
A: Everyone agrees.

11:43am Rep. Nadler (D-NY) begins his questions

Q: Our laws discriminate against same sex bi-national couples—so our laws enact a cruelty on these couples. If we had gay marriage this premise would be moot. The Uniting Families Act would allow a person to sponsor his or her same sex partner for the purposes of immigration. Do you think is a good piece for immigration reform?
Castro A: I do. I myself support marriage equality, but even for those who support civil unions, this is a good fix.

Q: Some propose increasing number of green cards in employment groups, but only at the expense of reducing family visas.
Castro A: This is not a zero sum game, we must continue employment and family based immigration. I would suggest being able to pick crops in the hot sun is a special skill. This is a false dichotomy.

Q: Some of the Jordan Commission’s strongest recommendations were regarding admitting large numbers of guest worker program. I feel very ambivalent about this, the share of native workers without a high school diplomas has been reduced from 40% to 6% in the last 50 years meaning they are less likely to work in low skilled jobs so does this recommendation still ring true?
Teitelbaum A: Yes, the conditions of work in the types of jobs offered are not very attractive thus the market predisposes employers to unauthorized workers.

11:49am Rep. Bachus (R-AL) begins his questions

Q: Do you think our national immigration policies should be based on our own national interests?
A: The entire panel agrees.

Q: Do we all agree that attracting high skilled legal immigrants is in our best interest and less contentious?
A: The entire panel agrees.

Q: Some countries are attempting to attract entrepreneurs, high skilled workers, STEM graduates. We have all seen that students are being educated in our schools then going back to their own countries and starting competing companies. Shouldn’t we prioritize those categories?
A: The entire panel agrees.

Q: It will be a much easier lift to solve the system for high skilled workers. Rep. Lofgren and Rep. Conyers and I all agree on this and could pass a bill that would take that off the table. When you try to pass a comprehensive bill that grants full amnesty it becomes much more difficult.

11:55am Rep. Watt (D-NC) begins his questions

Q: I am a strong supporter of high skilled immigration but the makeup of this panel suggests that is the only thing that should be talked about. This emphasis on high skilled reform cannot be to exclusion of other kinds of immigration reform and inclusion of other immigrants. I want that on the record from witnesses.
Wadhwa A: We can’t wait on the million legal high skilled immigrants that are here right now waiting on green cards, but we have to do the other side as well.
Teitelbaum A: The Commission recommended the rapid admission of the family priority categories.
Arora A: We’ve supported comprehensive immigration reform in the past, but we just want these problems to be solved.
Castro A: I think this issue must be addressed comprehensively, but the STEM bill that was supposed to be easy could not get through the Senate.

12:00pm Rep. Forbes (R-VA) begins his questions.

Q: There will always be people who will try to circumvent the law, in ten years should we be prepared to draft a path to citizenship for those people who circumvented this law?
Castro A: That is not a question that can be answered right now, it is just too hypothetical.

Q: There are a few undocumented immigrants here who are not hardworking and are engaged in gangs. Should we be prepared to deport immigrants engaged in violent gangs before they commit a violent criminal act?
Castro A: Deporting criminals should be a priority, but on the hypothetical I can’t provide expertise.

12:07pm Rep. Lofgren begins her questions

Q: A person can be found deportable even if they haven’t been convicted. We have a unique opportunity to propose a solution that will ensure we won’t be back here in 20 minutes. After 1986 we made no provisions to meet the economic needs of the country. now we have 2 million farmworkers and 90% are unauthorized. We need a system that meets our needs economically and respect our family immigration. It would be such a tragedy to be sidetracked on whether or not the 11 million here who responded to the help wanted sign could not have an opportunity to become right with the law and eventually earn citizenship. Some people make the argument that today’s immigrants or not as good as previous generations of immigrants. Have you seen any evidence that today’s immigrants are less wiling to learn English or become American than older generations.
Castro A: No, they are just as hard working, faith oriented and committed to our values.

12:24pm Rep. Steve King (R-IA) begins his questions

Q: In this conversation we wouldn't necessarily know if we were talking about immigrants who came here legally or illegally. So Mr. Wadhwa's testimony is about 1 million legal immigrants. Do you think there should be a limit to the number of people allowed into the United States and what is that number?
Castro A: Like any country there will be a specific number of people allowed to enter, but we must put the people who are already here on a path to citizenship.

Q: Do you think immigration policy should enhance the social and economic well-being of the United States?
Castro A: Yes and immigrants here do so.

Q: Would the agricultural sector collapse without the unauthorized workforce?
Teitelbaum A: If you removed the workforce suddenly then yes that infrastructure would collapse, but should you continue to rely on these workers as we move forward. There are many industries that rely on unauthorized workers.

12:29pm Rep. Jackson-Lee (D-TX) begins her questions

Q: In 2012 border patrol agents have apprehended over 300,000 crossers and the budget has doubled under the Obama administration as we look at how we balance different approaches. Can't children of unskilled immigrants ascend in STEM fields? And don't people flock to the United States because of excellent higher institutions? Isn't important when we talk about CIR not to leave anyone out-including skilled immigrants. Can you speak to the horror of us not doing CIR? Please put a face on these stories.
Castro A: DREAM Act students are in limbo and rips families apart at the seams.

12:35pm Rep. Gohmert (R-TX) begins his questions

Q: I think about the financial burden we're placing on our children-we're spending money like crazy and part of it is healthcare and now Seniors are seeing the massive cuts. One of the problems with our economy is that even though people in business, the chamber, want to look the other way for unauthorized workers, the rest of Americans are paying for the health care of these workers. Would any of you have a problem with requiring businesses provide health care for temporary workers?

12:40pm Rep. Chu (D-CA) begins her questions

Q: One of the priorities for CHC and CAPAC is to protect the unities of families, under the current system there is a significant backlog especially in the Philippines and Mexico for adult siblings. Why are families good for our nation and the economy?
Castro A: Families make individuals stronger and are the base of our communities. We must invest to clear the backlog.

Q: Want to ask about family of high skilled workers and how they live as second class citizens because their spouses are not allowed to work? How does the fairness for families of high skilled workers contribute to the retention of those workers?
Wadhwa A: Yes, this must be fixed.

Q: Could you talk more about your solution to exempt spouses and children from the employment based backlogs?
Arora A: There are some states that restrict so severely that it impacts the family unit.

12:48pm Rep. Poe (R-TX) begins his questions

Q: The system allows for abuse by criminals, mainly the drug cartels, that have become so sophisticated and are engaged in human trafficking. I don't believe the border is secure otherwise we wouldn't have the organized crime problems in the United States. Do you think if we had a better legal entry visa (card, biometrics, etc…) would that help the overall issue of knowing who comes in lawfully?
Castro A: In Texas the dedication of boots on the ground at the border has accelerated in recent years, but that doesn't answer the 11 million that are here.

Q: My caseworkers spend more time helping people get here the right away, and it's a big problem when people have to wait for years to come in. We need to improve the legal system so it is more secure.

12:54pm Rep. Bass (D-CA) begins her questions

Q: How long will it take for someone to make it through the proposed process to get citizenship? Castro A: It is a long line, a multiple years long process.

Q: There are 5000-6000 children in foster care right now because one or both of their parents have been deported. Is this affecting your city and how we can fix this problem in CIR? For those parents who have been deported how do we make sure to reunite them with their children?
Castro A: In any city the size of San Antonio you have families torn apart by our immigration system. George Bush when he was Governor said that family values don't end at the Rio Grande.

Q: Could you give a couple of examples of what changes growers would make if they didn't have access to unauthorized workers.
Teitelbaum A: An Apricot farmer told me that I would cut down all these trees and plant walnut trees that don't require as intensive workforce.

1:01pm Rep. Gowdy begins his questions

Q: Mayor Castro could you support a bill that stops short of full citizenship?
Castro A: No.

Q: What is this a compromise between because I don't hear anyone suggesting against background checks?
Castro A: There was a compromise agreed to between Senators of both parties that lead to that.

1:08pm Rep. Richmond (D-LA) begins his questions

Q: What are the factors that we should determine when deciding what is in America's best interest? Is education the only factor? What about the moral ground we concede when we don't prioritize family.
A: The panel agrees that it shouldn't be the only factor, because families are important.

1:14pm Rep. Labrador (R-ID) begins his questions

Q: We need to solve this problem in a fair way to current Americans, the people waiting in line and the 11 million people living here without papers. I think we should get rid of the sibling category. I disagree with the Jordan Commission finding on guest worker. In Idaho two dairy farms went through I-9 audits and a large percentage of their workers were unauthorized and fired. How can you say that we don't have a need for these positions?
Teitelbaum A: Agricultural industries have become dependent on an unauthorized workforce, they could adapt.

Q: Mayor Castro's solution is not pragmatic to insist on a path to citizenship. In my experience they want to be legal and be treated with dignity, not that they have to be citizens.
Castro A: Anything less than citizenship is not in the best interest of the nation, I think we will be in the same position 20 years from now.

Q: Do we want a political solution or a policy solution?

1:19pm Rep. Gutierrez (D-IL) begins his question

Q: In the amount of time we've been here dozens of people have been deported. Immigrants pay taxes and after 1986 there was an increase in the earning ability of these immigrants. When you give 11 million workers certainty in the workforce they are going to buy that house, that car. They'll open bank accounts and get insurance. We need to replace the baby boomers in our workforce. There are undocumented people in this room, there are DREAMers in this room, we have a DACA recipients in this room, in my office. They are not a burden. For 10 years I have insisted that nothing happen on STEM or anything else unless CIR happens, but last year I said ok to 50,000 visas for STEM graduates, but they had to be clean-you could not move forward and put others back. And we included family because we didn't want you to have to make a choice between serving this country and your family.

1:33pm Rep. Delbene (D-WA) begins his questions

Q: How would a Start Up visa program work?
Wadwha A: There are literally tens of thousands of companies that would be started with these visas.

1:40pm Rep. Farenthold (R-TX) begins his questions

Q: My heart is broken that people that are in this country without status are an underclass and afforded the full protection of the law and open to exploitation by unscrupulous employers. It seems the stumbling block is the pathway to citizenship. How do we ensure that this doesn't happen again?
Castro A: I believe as a nation we are stronger when we take people to take an oath to the country. I cannot imagine a country that says to these people you will never, never be a citizen of this country. I think we need a comprehensive approach with more border security and interior enforcement. Throwing our hands up is not an option.

1:45pm Rep. Garcia (D-FL) begins his questions

Q: People need to understand this is no paradise to live in limbo for 10-15 years working as strawberry pickers

1:50pm Rep. Holding (R-NC) begins his questions

Q: Mayor Castro if you were an illegal immigrant would you choose convicted criminal or almost citizen?
Castro A: Something is better than nothing, but it doesn't address the problem we're facing.

Q: What is the mistake we made in 1986 that we want to fix to ensure that we don't do this again? Castro A: Border security.

2:10pm Chair Goodlatte introduces the second panel of witnesses

2:55pm: Julie Myers Wood speaks on past efforts by ICE to focus on interior and border enforcement.

3:00pm: Chris Crane speaks on the experiences of ICE agents with immigration enforcement.

3:05pm: Jessica Vaughan speaks on the extent of immigration and worksite enforcement.

3:11pm: Muzaffar Chisti speaks on the record-high level of immigration enforcement.

3:17pm: Rep. begins his questions for the second panel:

Q. Ms. Wood, could I summarize it, our immigration enforcement has not worked? Wood A: we have not done all that we could do. We have to get enforcement right from the get-go, and get it right

Q. You mentioned $10,000 as a fine? I saw that in AL, the profit from that job was close to a million dollars. Many of the fines are a slap on the wrist.
Wood A: I think that is the case. I think what the civil fines have done is to raise awareness. Now, that a number of companies have go through the audit process, they think it's easier to pay the fine instead of E-verify.

Q. One of the reasons that ICE increased worksite enforcement to give the American people the confidence. What can Congress do to continue that?
Wood A: Confidence in immigration enforcement. How is it funded? Do we have the tools and the technology we need, not only at the border, but at the interior. ICE has about 7,000 agents, that's fewer than many city police departments. The system should move more quickly. Voluntary removal, expedited removal in certain cases.

Q. Tell me about your lawsuit against Homeland Security.
Crane A: A lawsuit that the federal government won't let us enforce the laws on the books. We can either enforce the law, be disciplined, and lose the jobs. Or we can lose our jobs.

3:23: Rep. Lofgren (D-CA) begins her questions:

Q. I agree that worksite enforcement has to be increased. That's something we need to come together to solve in a bi-partisan manner. The fines have gone up. I'm also interested, Mr. Chisti, your organization has done a lot of research on this. One of the questions we have here today is why didn't IRCA work? And I think the assumption is lack of enforcement. Some say that H-2A was in and of itself sufficient to deal with the future immigration?
Chisti A. No one said that H-2A was enough to satisfy the needs of the immigration system, or future immigration. whole IRCA was too narrow, only looked at the needs of illegal immigration. We were in a recession, but after, there was more demand.

Q. Challenge of not creating a mess for future Congress to fix. There is broad agreement that someone with a PHD in electrical engineering will go out and create jobs, but there are sectors, such as migrant workers. What we've learned is that after IRCA, there were evasive tactics taken. Employers using contracts. Do you have advice for us as we craft future flow requirements, tricks to avoid.
Chisti A. We didn't have laws that met reality. We enacted laws in '86, to create. We didn't make a system that met the needs. We have to learn from 1986. We have to build a robust new streams of labor to come to meet the needs. Measured on real market needs. On E-verify, there are good employers and bad employers. The important thing is to go after the bad employers. One thing I suggest is to build labor protections into the next steps. We all know that Supreme Court has issued an important decision on this.

3:30 Rep. King (R-IA) begins his questions:

Q. Mr. Crane, if we had enforce the laws that exist, would that work?
Crane A: I don't' think we know that the laws we have now aren't good laws, we've just never enforced them.

Q. Ms. Wood, on cumulated data of those who were deported, could you break down the data?
Wood A: A big problem is that a lot of times, people are ordered deported, but don't go home. The numbers have gone up to 500,000 of those who absconded.

Q. We have an E-verify program now. Could you care to comment E-verify to verify their current employees
VaughanA: Ultimately, we should build a system that is phased in, so that at some point, employers can verify their whole workforce. We have a system now, SSNVS.

3:36 pm Rep. Jackson-Lee begins her questions

Q: In Texas there are over 1 million unauthorized workers that generate millions of dollars of revenue and are 7% of the workforce in Texas, and if we work with a legalization plan they will add to the American economy. Mr. Crane, why did you have to sue the federal government?
Crane A: Because the Agency told us you can't enforce immigration law otherwise you will lose your job. Speaking specifically about the prosecutorial discretion and DACA.

Q: If we passed CIR and changed the laws to be consistent with the President's priorities by giving legal status to undocumented immigrants that would make your job easier?
A: The more distinction we have under the law is better, but we also have to have political leaders stay out of our work so we can can enforce the laws on the book.

Q: We don't give any option for families to appeal deportation order to split up families, do you think that would be helpful?
A: We would do well with a review at the mid term level.

3:45pm ep. Labrador (R-ID) begins his questions

Q: We need to have a robust, modern immigration system that works. Speaking specifically to people who work in law enforcement in my district they are concerned that CIR will lead to more fraud in documents necessary for legalization. How can we ensure that we don't have fraud in the future? Wood A: A national biometric system and a E-Verify system that puts the burden on the government rather than the employer. Move to a mass adjustment that ICE has access to information about people who commit fraud. Finally, resources, we need more ICE agents.
Crane A: We need to prosecute people and institute a life time bar and removal for those who use fraudulent documents.
Vaughan A: We must have a system that has integrity to combat fraud and there must be an interview process at some point. The burden of proof should be on the applicant. There cannot be a confidentiality clause in this process.
Chishti A: We do have big gaps in employee verification system either through biometric or better documents. When you provide an incentive for people to commit fraud they commit fraud and when you don't they behave. We need to be more inclusive.

3:52pm Rep. Chu begins her questions

Q: I took a Congressional Bi-partisan trip to the border and the detention centers. The detention center had capacity for hundreds, but there were only a few people there. We've poured billions of dollars and doubled the number of boots on the ground, so is the border secure?
Chishti A: Ports of Entry are still a point of weakness, but other than that the border is secure.

Q: Immigrant workers in my district regularly face exploitation by their employers when they stand up for their rights and are threatened with deportation. How can we protect workers so they can stand up to such exploitation.
A: The exploitation of workers should be a central component to any CIR program. In the H2B program you cannot sue your employer, all you can do is go to the Labor Department. Future flow considerations must include labor protections on par with American workers. There must be a portability for workers to move from one job to another. Immigrant workers should have the sameaccess to rights, courts and wages as American workers.

3:58pm Rep. Goodlatte begins his questions

Q: Prosecutorial Discretion seems to be used by this administration as a class discretion rather than on a case by case basis. Is this appropriate?
Wood A: PD is important to address cases that cannot be addressed through legislation. Crane A: We are under orders to not carry out the laws.

Q: Do you believe that the resources Congress gives ICE are enough to effectively carry out interior enforcement if they were used effectively?
Vaughan A: I think there could be better use of resources, for example if we used expedited removal, but also an infusion of resources.

Q: Immigration enforcement budget exceed by one quarter all the other combined federal enforcement agencies. Do you think the border patrol resources should be cut?
Chishti A: We just want to point out that due to budgetary realities that this cannot be an everlasting expansion of resources, so we want to suggest ways to cut things that aren't working well.

Q: I don't believe we should cut the funding for border enforcement, but I don't think we are doing enough to enforce the law in the interior because 40% of the people here are visa overstays.
Chishti A: We identified two areas for gap: the E-Verify program has a big drawback around identification purposes and the US VISIT program that identifies entry/exit system is lacking.
Vaughan A: Agreed, we need to make sure that people entering through land ports are scrutinized.
Crane A: Approximately 5,000 ICE Agents do the lion share of the immigration work (out of 20,000 total ICE agents). We haven't grown since 9/11 compared to Border Patrol tripling. 5,000 ICE Agents are split into two different positions that don't have the same arrest authority.

4:11pm Rep. Holding begins his questions

Q: In East North Carolina we had a zero tolerance policy, but we have very few prosecutions of visa overstays. The ICE agents did not have time to go after visa overstays because they were concentrating on criminals. How much of a resource influx would we need to enforce the rules of law on the books right now? Wood A: It would take a lot of years. Even if we started from zero after a legalization program we wouldn't have enough resources to enforce the laws.

3:36 pm Rep. DeSantis (R-FL) begins her questions

Q: How likely is it that the enforcement proposals we are discussing today will actually be carried out? Wood A: The opposite of doing something is not that we will be in a perfect system, that is the compelling reason to think about whether we can get a trigger. On both sides of the aisle people believe the system is broken. Crane A: My confidence level is zero that we'll be able to do our jobs in the future.

Q: Where does the 11 million figure of undocumented immigrants come from?
Vaughan A: There is a fair amount of consensus around the 11-12 million number.

Q: What will legalization cost taxpayers?
Vaughan A: The two proposals will be enormously costly because the people who would be legalized who have not had access to our social welfare system. We're talking tens of billions dollars a year.

Rep. Bachus tries to make the case that immigrants are more likely to commit federal crimes (e.g. kidnapping, money laundering, etc…)

Rep. Goodlatte asks the last question of the panel: what will make this time around different than 1986?
Panelists: More enforcement.
Chishti A: We must accept reality, it's not in our interest to continue on this same path.


Witness List:

Panel One:

Vivek Wadhwa
Vice President of Innovation and Research at Singularity University;
Director of Research the Pratt School of Engineering, Duke University

Michael Teitelbaum
Senior Adviser, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation and Fellow Harvard Law School

Puneet S. Arora
Chairman of the Board
Immigration Voice

Julian Castro
Mayor
San Antonio, Texas

Panel Two:

Julie Myers Wood
President of Guidepost Solutions LLC;
Former Assistant Secretary of ICE, DHS 2006-2008

Chris Crane
President, National Immigration and Customs Enforcement Council 118,
American Federation of Government Employees

Jessica Vaughan
Director of Policy Studies
Center for Immigration Studies

Muzaffar Chishti
Director, Migration Policy Institute Office
New York University Law School

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